Multithreaded Income Podcast

It's time for the multi
threaded income podcast.

We're like insurance for a
turbulent tech landscape.

I'm your host, Kevin Griffin.

Join me as I chat with people all around
the industry who are using their skills

to build multiple threads of income.

Let us support you in your career
by joining our discord at mti.

to slash discord.

Now let's get started.

Kevin Griffin: welcome
back to the show, everyone.

I'm joined by my special
guest today, Kaylee Hamray.

How are you today, Kaylee?

Kailee Hamre: Good.

How are you?

Kevin Griffin: Good.

I'm so excited to have you.

I had put out a call on the LinkedIn.

I think I was just asking for people
who might not have come from a

traditional tech background, who
were freelancing or moonlighting.

Uh, in their spare time, in
addition to their full time job,

and you had raised your hand.

It was great to get you scheduled
and get you on the podcast because we

were just talking a moment ago, you
definitely do not come from a traditional

tech background, and I think this is
exciting for a lot of our listeners

who are really passionate Interest in
getting started in tech or development

or whatever you want to call it.

And they're not coming up through those
traditional means, but let's start with

just kind of introduction of yourself.

So Kaylee tell us about
yourself and what do you do now?

Let's start with the now and present.

Kailee Hamre: Right on.

I'm Kaylee.

Uh, I'm 26.

I am currently a junior
systems administrator for

a local cell phone company.

They, a local sales cell phone company.

I'll say that, but we're, there's
like 70 stores throughout, uh,

Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois.

So it's the headquarters is here.

Kevin Griffin: What were you doing before?

Kailee Hamre: I was a medical
laboratory scientist or an MLS.

Um, I have a four year degree in that.

Uh, which I got through, like, you
know, traditional university, went

to class every day for four or five
years, um, did community college before

that, um, but yeah, so, uh, basically
anytime your specimen, you present

a specimen to the, your healthcare
provider, whether that's blood, pee.

What have you, um, it would come
into my hands next and whatever

results you get back were looked
at by me before that got released.

And then, um, I'm also in rural Michigan,
so I would also draw your blood.

So kind of a, kind of the whole circus.

Kevin Griffin: you're either like
the, the worst person of someone's

day or, you know, the best person.

Um, I've had my blood drawn by all
kinds and I, I like to think I have

pretty good veins, but there was this
one old lady at my doctor's office who

cannot find my vein to save her life.

And yeah, we're complete,
you know, sidebar

Kailee Hamre: No, no, yeah.

Kevin Griffin: like, I don't think
it's hard to take blood from my arms.

And this one lady managed
to just make me swell up and

bruise like no one's business.

Uh, so

Kailee Hamre: both.

I've been both the person who hits, like,
you know, you get somebody in and they'll

be like, nobody ever gets my blood.

And I've been the person to get them.

And then I've also been,
nobody has a hard time with me.

And I'm like, you know, six
pokes in, you know, cause you

know, that's, that's how it.

You'll be like that as

Kevin Griffin: art more than a science.

So Kaylee, you're poking
and prodding people.

You're checking their,
their various bodily fluids.

Somewhere along the way you
decided you wanted to make a jump.

Um, what was kind of that, that catalyst
moment that you realized, all right,

I don't want to do this anymore.

Kailee Hamre: So, um, I was pregnant
with my daughter, my, my second child.

And, um, the, it ended up being my
first kid, I had preeclampsia, so

I was super, super sick at the end.

And, um, with my second daughter,
I was like kind of having

some contractions and stuff.

So I didn't anticipate
this to be my last shift.

But my very last shift that I worked
supposed to work an additional week.

Um, I was exposed to COVID, which, okay,
so what, you know, like a lot of my

coworkers would say like big deal, you
know, you're not special, but then that

patient also ended up having tuberculosis.

So that was like super scary by itself.

I was like, man, that really sucks.

And, um.

Um, you know, going into labor and
everything, that was just like a,

a really kind of not fun thing.

And, um, yeah, I just, like, I
remember I not to be like TMI.

I, I had my kid, I pushed my daughter
out of my body and I was like, I'm done.

I can't do this.

Like, it was like a light switch went off.

I'm like, I can't, I can't
live like this anymore.

I was working third shift.

Um, and then also coming out of
that field, I did, I had to do

an internship that was unpaid.

So it was just like two
years of, and it was.

during COVID.

So it was just really, really tough.

Like I never had a normal experience.

And like a lot of people, I'm sure a
lot of my coworkers would look at me and

say, well, if you stuck it out, you know,
things are kind of normal now, but it's

like, no, they're not like RSV flu COVID.

Like there's like, we have three
different things going on now.

You know, so it's like, it's just, I, I
went to my doctor like two months ago.

She had a mask on.

I went two weeks ago.

She didn't have a mask on, you know,
like, it's not, it's not normal.

I never worked a shift
where I didn't wear a mask.

You know, I had, I had to be trained on
how to use PPE, which is like Spanish

flu, you know, like that's crazy.

Like that's not what I signed up for.

It was marketed to me like CSI, cool,
you know, don't you don't have to talk

to people, which like I never minded
drawing blood until I was exposed to

some of the things I was exposed to, you
know, MRSA, all the scary things you hear

about I was regularly in contact with.

Kevin Griffin: Oh my goodness.

I didn't even think about that.

It's like the fine print on
the back of the brochure.

Uh, Oh yeah.

You know, if you're a people
person, it's probably great.

You get to talk to all kinds of people.

But yeah, you're also opening yourselves
to every single disease possible

through bodily fluid transmission.

So I don't, I don't blame you at all.

That's that sounds awful.

Kailee Hamre: I really
loved the idea of it.

And I did, um, you know, fun, fun
side fact, I have a published paper.

I was really into like my sciences when I
was in college and like I really do enjoy.

Procedures, I do a lot of baking at home.

Like it is something that I really
love, but the, the nature of the

field, especially in a rural area,
just, it, it beat it right out of me.

I was like, I can't,
this is not sustained.

Like I missed in one year,
I missed every holiday.

I miss Thanksgiving, Christmas, Christmas
Eve, New Year's partially taking

it because, you know, I wanted the.

The shift differential, but like,
it, it just, I'm like, I'm gonna

have to work at least two of
these a year and I can't do that.

Like, that's just not, that's not for me.

Kevin Griffin: What made you choose tech?

,
Kailee Hamre: Yeah, I,
I've gotten this question.

I've, I've had this come
up a number of times.

Um, when I was in high school,
I did, um, I did websites.

So I, I don't really
know how I got into it.

Um, you know, like, yeah.

The kids my age will probably recall
either Neopets or Myspace or, you know,

forums, or sometimes you'd use like HTML
tags and it just kind of snowballed and

through one way or another, I ended up,
um, doing some WordPress websites on

the side for cash in, in high school,
um, going into community college, I got

burned real bad a couple of times where,
uh, contractual obligations were not

met or, you know, things happened and I
had to pay people back money, which, you

know, being in a, you know, A situation
where I was a community college student,

it was just like not going to work.

So I, I stopped doing it.

I focused on my studies.

That's how I kind of got tossed down
the biology and medical lab rabbit hole.

And then, um, we were on a drive
and my husband actually suggested

to me, he's like, why don't you.

Pick up programming again.

Um, he has a friend who is,
has been a mentor to me, who is

a very successful programmer.

And, um, you know, I kind of talked, I
floated the idea of doing a bootcamp, but

you know, bootcamps are super expensive.

So I was like, uh, I'm just going to
try to do this for a couple of months,

free code camp, you know, code academy,
whatever, and see, see what I can do.

And now here I am.

Kevin Griffin: well, that's awesome.

Uh, so you had said previously, you're not
doing the, the programming part right now

you're doing system administrative work.

Uh, how did, were there not an opportunity
to just jump in the programming

Kailee Hamre: Yeah, it was, um,
it was in, in rural Michigan

where I'm at, it's just not.

The opportunities are few and far between.

So I saw, I saw a lot of outs to get
out of, um, the hospital field that I

interviewed for and applied for many jobs.

Um, you know, one was like a
health inspector type role.

One was, um, the community college I went
to had an opening as like, uh, uh, like

a math and science mentor to students.

And so.

Eventually this systems
administrating role popped up.

Yeah, that's my awful cat.

Um, and all throughout college,
I worked in a help desk.

So, you know, it's tough because when
I see a lot of these posts, you know,

kind of advocating for, you know, what,
what do you recommend or, you know,

having conversations about like how to
break out of whatever you're doing now

into tech, you have to do something.

And so I just had the benefit of having
been in a help desk role, which then

got me, you know, originally it was
advertised as like a help desk technician.

But, um, I took on additional duties and
they were willing to bump up the title to

the junior systems administrator, which
looks good, you know, I'll take what I

get and then I do program on the side.

I do a lot of freelance work and, um,
you know, I've, I've had some success

with that, particularly in just learning,
you know, In, in being able to gain

a mastery of frameworks and things
like that, that has been very helpful

Kevin Griffin: Well, let's talk a little
bit about the, the freelancing work.

Uh, how many projects are you
usually taken on at one time?

Kailee Hamre: too many.

Um, um, I'm trying to think right
now I have usually like three or

four at any given point in time.

And it's just like spinning plates,
you know, like I try to, and like also

keeping in mind, like not all of those
projects always work out to like, I had

one who gave me like a half deposit and
then I sent them, you know, essentially.

Something I would be proud to deploy
and they hated it and so we just didn't

end up deploying it which happens, you
know, and I walk away from that going

well, they didn't feel like they had the
time to give me to fix the things they

wanted to work on if that makes sense.

So I was like, well, yes, you gave me some
money and I built something really cool.

So, and I know more react now than I did.

Six weeks ago or whatever.

So I'll, I'll take what I get.

Um, but yeah, like three or four usually.

Kevin Griffin: Uh, where are
you finding some of your leads

for, for different projects?

Are they all local or are you
finding them through other sources?

Kailee Hamre: So the first
project I got, um, I'm actually

mostly thankful to my husband.

He works for our local chamber of
commerce and like doing tourism and stuff.

And one of the local hotels had
reached out and said, Hey, we

need somebody to do our website.

So I redid the website, um, and then
they, they had told me that the guy

who hosted their websites was retiring.

So I just contacted him
and I was like, hey.

Do you have any more?

And then I got like, I got
some clients from that.

Most of them, I just moved them over to
like GoDaddy and, you know, charge them

the hosting and an additional, a small
additional fee to have me do that work.

And then some of them have turned into
actual like clients where, you know, there

was some maintenance that needed to be
done on the website and it just ended up.

Where I was charging them hourly and I'm
like, you know, if we just build something

new, like we don't have to do this.

So, um, and then I've gotten other clients
through, one of them was through a friend.

He's, I, I got a guy in California
and that was like from a friend.

So very far from, from Michigan.

Um, And then some clients I've got through
quite honestly, just spamming people.

Like I went to the chamber of commerce's
website and I looked up all the

businesses and I sent them an email and
I was like, Hey, do you want a website?

Hey, do you want to, and I, you know,
would stop, you know, on the B's or the

C's or the D's or whatever, and maybe
rephrase something or rewrite something

or try, you know, maybe I'm going to try.

This way or, you know, something like
that, just messaging people on Facebook,

um, you know, I, I have floated the
idea of like business cards and stuff.

I don't, I don't feel like I'm
there yet, but you know, just,

I, I hate the word hustle.

Like, it's just such a, it's
Gen Z probably like cringes.

I'm, I'm on the border
of Gen Z millennial.

So I kind of cringe like that hustle
culture, you know, but seriously,

like, I just, I just bother people.

And so, and a lot of times it works out.

Yeah.

You know, for the times that it doesn't,
it's like, well, I was going to sit

on Facebook anyway, or I was going to
waste my time doing something anyway.

So, you know,

Kevin Griffin: There's something
to be said for, and I've said this

numerous times, the best way to get
started in anything is just to do

the work that you can't scale easily.

Like reaching out to people
and just saying I'm available.

Do you need work?

That doesn't make a lot
of sense when you're.

When you're fully booked, and but when
you have nothing to do or you're looking

for projects, it makes a ton of sense
to just reach out to people and say,

I'm looking for for something to do.

I have time available.

I have these skills.

Can we make?

Can we make a match?

And yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

Eventually, you'll just get so busy that
you won't have time to do that anymore

because the works all coming to you.

Kailee Hamre: And, you know, as
a, as a super new dev, you hear it

a lot through, you know, whatever
resource you might be looking at

on that day, YouTube videos, books.

LinkedIn, LinkedIn, especially X.

Um, everybody says, you know, offer to
do work for people for free, if that's

what it takes, you know, volunteer
your time, you know, find, find a

woman's shelter or an animal shelter
or something that you can do work for.

And, um, yeah, I, my very
first clients and even clients

now, you know, truthfully, I.

I'm probably just breaking even like
with the amount of time that is required

of me to put in because I'm new,
because I don't know what I'm doing.

And I make a lot of mistakes and you
know, I, I spin my wheels a lot on

problems, but part of me at one point
just said like, Hey, I'm not particularly

interested in this product I'm working on.

Like, I'm not super stoked to
do like a website for this, this

business, but it's an opportunity.

And if they're paying
me to learn something.

Even if I'm not making like buckets
of money, it's better than nothing.

And like, especially being a
new dev, like, I don't know.

I just had a hard time
coming up with stuff.

Like I did not want to build a to do list.

I did not want to build tic tac toe.

Like that stuff is cool when
you're learning syntax, but like,

I can't memorize how to do that.

Like that, that I'm not the university
I went to, um, for my lab science

degree, I went to Michigan tech.

You know, if anybody's
here go Huskies, whatever,

Um, it's mostly an engineering school
and I went in there originally as an

engineer and I felt super stupid because
I was, I, I quit that field because of

programming, because I didn't understand,
because I wasn't keeping up as quickly

as everybody around me, you know,
everybody around me was super smart.

And I just, I didn't feel like I could
keep up and I had to take a bunch of,

you know, they, they give you like this
test and then they place you in a class

for, for software for programming.

And they put me in like
the, the lowest one.

So I would have to work for two semesters
to get college credit, you know, so

I, I looked at it and, you know, I,
Switching around my major a bunch.

I did take a couple of programming
classes and I was like,

man, I'm really bad at this.

Like it takes me way more
effort than anybody else.

I don't understand things as quickly.

So to me, you know, a lot of
tutorials and instructional videos

and books and stuff, they're great.

But I have to literally do something
10, 000 times and screw it up

and break it and do it again.

And, you know, I have, the way I learn,
it just, I think it kind of lends itself

towards the way I've been doing things.

So, I mean.

Teach their own.

If you get off on tic tac toe,
you're like, able to learn on that.

That's awesome.

Like, if you're understanding these
concepts super fast, that's great,

but I didn't understand props until I
built, like, my fourth website in React.

Legitimately, I did not
understand what they were.

I was like, I don't know what this means.

And then I used, like, a call to
action twice, and I was like, wait,

that could be the header is a prop!

And I felt like such an idiot.

Like, in a good way, I was like, man,
this whole time That's all that is.

It's, it's so nebulous.

Like, especially for somebody like me,
when you're, you know, dealing with like

blood is blood, there's red blood cells.

And then like, what is an API?

Like we made that up
people, we made that up.

We, we gave it, you know, here's,
here's a rest API versus a not rest API.

Like that was, all that
stuff was super hard for me.

And then coming from a field where
like the rules are predefined.

And so to, to enter into
tech and programming, it.

It was a, it was a huge shift for me.

And like I said, even though
freelancing hasn't necessarily been

like a gold mine for me, I, it's
better than not doing anything.

It's better than sitting around
waiting for somebody to hire me.

Kevin Griffin: You're hitting on a
huge point that you, as someone who

comes from a medical field, like the
amount of certification guidelines.

And, uh, accountability that you had
as a medical professional, we have

none of that over in, in software
development, in tech, in programming,

whatever you want to call it.

We have none of that.

It's the wild west of,
of industries because.

Anyone, and this is, this is good and bad.

Like anyone can step in, pick
up this skillset and really go

off and be successful with it.

Um, but you know, to that extent,
we're making the rules up as we go.

And like, you're making a great
point, but things with, it's

not, it reacts a great example.

You're.

You're going in and you're learning
this concept, and it's one of those

things that probably makes a lot
more sense if you were there 15 years

ago, realizing we have a problem.

How do we solve this problem?

Well, we have to do this thing
in this thing, and that's

how our anglers come around.

This is how our reacts come
around our views and so on.

We're just continuously.

Solving a problem, but then
making 15 new problems and

having to solve those as well.

Uh, and I can see that
as super frustrating.

And I still have that frustration
myself going into something new and it's

just gonna actually used to be easier.

Kailee Hamre: Yeah, right.

And like I try like to compare I recently
was the current degree I'm completing

through Western Governors University.

Um, just to kind of break past those sort
of HR barriers and software engineering.

It's you could pick like Java or C
sharp and I decided to do C sharp.

Um, just because thanks.

Um, Just based on like the limited
stuff I looked at there's on the coasts,

which is where we probably want to go.

My family's on the east coast.

Um, there seems, especially on
the east coast, there seems to

be some C sharp job opening.

So I'm like, well, I
guess I'll pick that one.

And I, a local opportunity popped up and
I went in for the interview and I was

like trying to learn some quick C sharp,
which sounds like absolutely ridiculous.

And looking at it, I was like, Oh my God,
this is like, this is like big kid stuff.

Like, React is literally just
do whatever and it works.

Like, you can litera like,
you can just pump out garbage.

And it works, usually.

Like, haha, Next.

js is kinda That was another thing,
you know, right when I started

learning create react app, like
officially got like, no, you shouldn't

use this anymore from Facebook.

And so I, you know, in addition to
react, started teaching myself next and

like, that was super helpful, but man,
to look at like an actual, I hesitate

to say actual programming language, but
like, you know, JavaScript is so nice.

It's like very polite.

Where C sharp is like, there's
this huge barrier to entry.

Like you have, like, I work on a Mac.

So like getting my VS code environment,
like download these 13 plugins and

then follow which, which kind of
project would you like to create?

And I'm like, I, the one that works, you
know, like, I don't know what I'm doing.

Yeah.

Kevin Griffin: if you ever have issues,
ask me, that's my bread and butter

right there is C sharpen dot net.

Um,

Kailee Hamre: Thank you.

Kevin Griffin: well, so Gail, let's
just kind of talk forward thinking

what's the what's the best case
scenario for you for your family?

Um, is it going full time as developers
and saying as a system administrator?

What would you like to do?

Kailee Hamre: I would like
to be a full time developer.

Um, you know, I, in my covers, my cover
letters that I use, I, I say that I've

fallen in love with software development,
and I, like, that sounds silly to me,

like, I don't know, I didn't fall in
love with, with poking people, like,

that wasn't, but truly, I think that
it's, you know, It's where the future

is like when people, I imagine when
people first became doctors, like

there's, there's this TV show on stars.

It's called the Nick again, you know,
shout out to anybody who's watched that.

It's an incredible show, but it's like
when doctors first started doing like

surgeries and like washing their hands.

And like, I imagine like, that's where
software development is now on the

in, in the whole of human history, you
know, like we're so much farther than

we were, um, When I was born, like 20,
we're far, we're so much farther than

we were 26 years ago and like as AI,
you know, comes over the event horizon.

It's like we have like, this
is, this is about to pop off.

You know what I mean?

Like this is about to blow up
and I want to be a part of that.

And like when I joined, when I joined,
when I was a medical laboratory scientist,

you know, coming off of publishing a
paper, I felt like so cool about that.

I was like, okay, you know, my name is on
something that nobody had written before.

Yeah.

You can't take that away from me and
like to then become like a cog in the

health care machine, which I could go,
you know, to ad nauseum about to go

from that, that high of my life where
like, like this guy I did the work

with a community college professor.

Told me about this guy, you know,
this, this author of a book and then

come to find out the guy I got my
publication with worked with that guy.

It was like, wow, this is so cool.

You know, like, this is, it was called Evo
Devo evolutionary developmental biology.

Like that feels so cool to work with.

And so.

To then feel like reduced.

I don't want to say reduced, but you
know, it felt like this big dream.

I had given the circumstances of
where I have to live right now.

Just, you know, as we, as we get our
ducks in a row, you know what I mean?

As we financially sort things out and
make it viable for us to leave this

area, you know, it just felt like.

I don't want to say a downgrade because
like the coworkers and the people I

worked with, like good work happens here
in, in rural healthcare, America, like

good work happens there, but it's not,
it's not what I had planned for myself.

And like, I, you know, everybody has
great big dreams planned for themselves.

And that's, you know, you
have to constantly weigh

the scales and balance that.

But, you know, I just, after I
had my second kid, I was really

like, man, this is not in addition
to all the lifestyle things.

I'm like, I don't want my to see me like
just I don't want to say give up, but

like, you know, here, cause going into
the field, I wanted to be a doctor, right?

I coming into this, I was
like, I want to be a doctor.

And you know, I went through some
of the motions of that, taking an

MCAT, which is a medical school
entrance exam, studying to do that.

I realized like, man, this is really hard.

And I'm a, I'm a first
generation college student.

So my parents did not go to college.

So I had like no.

Support, like emotionally speaking.

So it was just so hard for me
to, to accomplish that dream.

And then, you know, I'm looking back
at that Kaylee or that person and then,

you know, fast forward to now I'm, you
know, grandma is swinging on me because

I'm trying to draw her blood and she's
blowing a point to, you know, like it

was just such a, it was so hard for me
because I just wasn't happy and like.

That, that's kind of what
I have a hard time with.

It's like, I'm not saying that the people
who do this work are beneath me or, you

know, I don't, I'm smarter than that.

It, that's not it.

It's just, it wasn't, I feel like part
of my brain isn't being used, you know,

and I want to, I want to solve problems.

I want to be able to work for a
company that's got this big complicated

thing and say like, wow, you know, I
can, I can tell you how that works.

I can tell you how this tangled mess
of cords or, you know, I can, I can

explain how it works or I can, you know.

be a, be an outlet for that.

And like, as far as systems
administrating goes, you know, it's,

it's been great, but I don't, I
don't see my future there either.

You know, it's just not, I don't
really want to write PowerShell.

I don't like PowerShell.

That's super controversial.

I just don't like PowerShell.

I don't like, um, like
Linux or Unix scripting.

It's just not like, oh, cool.

You're in a directory now, whatever.

Like, I know you can do more than
that, but I, I get a lot of joy out of

like creating things and that's sort

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

Kailee Hamre: Architectural construction,
you know, state of mind where you can

like build something, even if it's broken
and it works poorly, you build that.

Like that's, that's your thing.

And you can sell that to somebody
like, you know, that sort of idea.

It's like, so American dream ask.

And like in a world in the world
we're in today, I don't feel like you

can get that out of anything else.

Like you can, you can literally teach
yourself how to program on the internet.

You can, you know, jump through whatever
series of hoops you'd like and you can

go work for somebody like that's not
in my, you can't do that in a hospital

like 20, 30, 40 years ago, you could, I
had coworkers who did not have degrees,

but they had just built themselves up,
you know, drawing blood and then all

of a sudden they're a lab scientist.

Like, yeah, you could have
done that in the 60s, 70s, 80s.

But now, now it's like, yeah.

That the only place you can do that
as tech, really the only place you can

do that as like software development,
like, you know, looking at other

system administrator qualifications.

I was like, man, you know, I am not,
I am not a systems administrator.

Like that's my title, but truthfully,
like I don't do a lot of scripting.

I don't do a lot of that.

So, you know, just cut my ramble short.

I'm just, I'm just Ram.

Kevin Griffin: you're
having a very like human.

It's a very human experience
because you had a plan and I think

it's fair to say plans can change.

If you get to a point in the plan and you
realize this is not the direction I want

to be going, you change the direction
that you want to go and you never know.

You might be five years from now, yeah.

Doing software development, living what
you think it is dreaming, realize maybe

this is what not what I want either.

And I'm gonna go off
and do something else.

It's extremely fair to say you're
allowed to change your mind if it's

not what you want to do, and I want
to wish you all the luck in the

world moving on and getting that.

That first, just, uh, you know, the
salary job as a, as a software developer.

Um, yeah, I know you have
a, you have a family.

How do you deal with some of the work
life balance of, I guess, working your

day job and working your, your side gigs
and then having a family on top of that.

Kailee Hamre: My husband is really,
really supportive, but you know,

truthfully, like as a, as a woman, as
a mom, there's really not a whole lot.

Like I can't speak to any, I have a ton
of guilt, you know, I have a ton of guilt.

It's, you know, I just try to remind
myself that like, you know, before

when I worked as a lab scientist, I
worked third shift, so I was gone.

You know, I wasn't here for
bedtime and now at the very bare

minimum, I'm here for bedtime.

Like, I mean, that's got to say something.

So, you know, it's, it's really tough,
but you know, I'm, I'm very lucky

to have a good husband to have, you
know, our babysitter's pretty cool.

Um, we don't live by family currently, but
that's, you know, part of the motivation

too, is like, I want to get out of
where I'm at and get closer to where

my family is so that we maybe can call
on them for a little bit more support.

But you know, finding supportive
people in your life is very.

Mission critical, I would say to like,
you know, figuring out what you're going

to do or like how you're going to do it
because like, you know, if, if I didn't

have my husband, I have no idea what I
would do, or, you know, if he was just

like a deadbeat, I'd be like screwed, like
it just, it would not work out, you know,

Kevin Griffin: Well, Kaylee, if
there's anyone out there who's

listening to go, I am definitely
not doing what I want to be doing.

I want to start down the road of
software development in many form.

What piece of advice would
you give that that person?

Kailee Hamre: that's like, so me
answering that question is like,

I feel like a clown right now.

Like I can paint clown makeup on myself.

No, but truthfully, I would just like,
like just offer to do stuff for people.

Like, I know that.

Yeah.

You know, I've, I've been
in different discords.

I've been in slacks.

I've been in, you know, different
groups and stuff like that.

And, you know, there's always
like, how do I do this thing?

And it's like, just keep building stuff.

And like, you know, I hate to, especially
with the recent controversy, I hate

to be this person, but like chat GPT.

Like, seriously, if it wasn't
for ai, I don't know that I

would be as far along as I am.

And I mean, if, if AI has,
has explained it to you 7,000

times, then do something else.

I don't know.

You know, like I, I have resorted
to writing code down in a notebook

to try to make myself understand it.

And if that's what you have
to do, like just do it.

Because truthfully, I, I've seen this
so many places and it always comes up at

the right time for me, is like, co you
don't have to be inherently talented.

To be good at programming and
there's different schools of

thought that disagree with that.

And truthfully, like if you're forcing the
square peg in the round hole, like, like,

obviously, if you feel super upset and you
don't want to do it, like, don't do it.

But if you're feeling defeated because
you feel like everybody in the room

is smarter than you or better than
you or whatever, like, just don't

don't let that be the reason you
stop, you know, just keep trying.

And just keep doing it because eventually
you will know what props are or you

will realize what something means.

And that moment is like very powerful
because you can be like, okay, I have to

keep going because if I understand more
of this, somebody will pay me for it.

And like, that's nobody can
take that away from you.

You know, I, I, I have also followed
a hundred devs, Leon, you know, and he

always did the story that really got me
in the beginning, like in his first couple

of classes is, you know, being super
poor and then somebody paying him for a

website and he bought groceries and that
like, even as somebody with an active.

Medical lab scientist certification.

Like that really stuck out to me.

Cause he was like, nobody
can take that from you.

And it's like, I have the certification,
but, and nobody can take that from me.

Certainly.

But I, I don't care.

I don't want it like it in, in the
market of today's like healthcare, you

know, you have people who are indentured
into like, you know, these first shift

jobs or, you know, positions that.

Yeah.

Are inherently desirable and then
people like me who are newer or don't

have the experience we get Slotted
into third shift and second shift and

that's just some people don't mind it.

Some people can survive it It wasn't for
me If you want to get into programming

just do it and if you find yourself
stuck try to get somebody to pay you

to do something because This is our you
know, like i've done work for people

like on shopify Like i've gone into
which they had the the custom shopify

code is like oh my god people People
really make money to write that, huh?

Liquid, whatever that is, God love you.

Like I can't, I, I've broken into, you
know, the back end of Shopify stores

and written like JavaScript inside of
Liquid to like get something to work.

You know, I've, I've
picked up whatever I can.

Um, I've done like freelance work for ad
agencies and marketing agencies and to

Varying levels of success, but I always
say, like, even if it's not exactly

what I wanted to be doing at that moment
in time, it's better than nothing.

And if you're, if you're not getting any
momentum, you're going to want to stop.

And that's what I think my husband's
friend who has been a huge mentor

to me, uh, shout out to Sal.

Um, he, he's like, just
keep going, just keep going.

The only way you're going to get
better at code is to write more of it.

That's it.

That's the, that's the whole thing.

And it's like some, somehow very
depressing to me, because it's like,

you know, I can't just, I'm not just
smart, you know, I can't just conjure

up a whole Microsoft in my head and
like, no, you can't, you have to

write and write and write again.

And like, it's just, that's what it is.

And if you write more, you will be better.

And if you stop, you're going
to stop where you're at.

And that's like, that's the way the cookie
crumbles and you just got to keep going.

Just keep going.

That's what, that's what I would say
in, in, in a summary, just keep going.

Kevin Griffin: just keep going.

I love it.

Kaylee, what's the best way for
people to reach out to you afterwards?

Kailee Hamre: Uh, LinkedIn works.

Um, I think I have my GitHub on there too.

Um, if you want to send
a pigeon to my house,

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

Kailee Hamre: um,

Kevin Griffin: put links to all
that stuff in our show notes.

Kailee Hamre: thank you.

Kevin Griffin: if you're open to it.

Kailee Hamre: Yeah,

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

Awesome.

Well, Kaylee, so much.

Thank you so much for
hanging out with us today.

This was a great conversation.

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

And we'll, we'll have to have you back in
a year and just kind of see where you are.

Cause I would love to keep
in touch and just kind of see

where your journey's taken you.

Kailee Hamre: Yeah.

Kevin Griffin: thank you so much for
hanging out with us and everyone else.

We'll see you next week on the
multi threaded income podcast.

Take care.

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multi threaded income podcast.

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I've been your host Kevin Griffin
and we'll see you next week.

Cha ching!