Multithreaded Income Podcast

It's time for the multi
threaded income podcast.

We're like insurance for a
turbulent tech landscape.

I'm your host, Kevin Griffin.

Join me as I chat with people all around
the industry who are using their skills

to build multiple threads of income.

Let us support you in your career
by joining our discord at mti.

to slash discord.

Now let's get started.

Kevin Griffin: Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the show.

I'm joined today by my
special guest, Scott Easton.

How are you today, Scott?

Scott Eastin: I'm great Kevin.

How about yourself?

Kevin Griffin: I'm doing well.

Now I had to put a call out on
to LinkedIn and I was asking for

various people who are moonlighting
freelancing, um, on the side.

In addition to their full time job and
Scott, I reached out to me because Scott

is in the unique position of helping
people find those type of positions.

And I thought it'd be interesting for
Scott and me to talk about kind of the

market right now and to help folks out
there who might be listening, who are

interested in doing some work part time.

But we're always trying to
solve that elusive question.

How do I find my initial clients?

And Scott makes that
process just so much easier.

So I'm looking forward to our
conversation because I think

folks will be able to learn a lot.

Scott Eastin: hope so.

Certainly hope so.

Kevin Griffin: Scott, let's start with,
let's talk about you a little bit.

What do you currently do?

And then I want to kind of talk
about your history and how you

got to where you are today.

Scott Eastin: So I'm Scott Easton.

I'm the owner of Easton IT security.

We are a specialty Azure and Microsoft
consulting firm and essentially we work

with lots of Microsoft business partners
and system integrators here in the U.

S.

helping them with their various
Azure and Microsoft needs.

Um, we have a heavy specialty
in security, migrations,

SharePoint, those type of things.

And essentially what I do is I
bring in independent consultants,

some who work for me full time.

Um, uh, there's a lot, uh, Do part time
work as well, and we go on and help those

various clients with various projects.

Some can be, you know, full 40
hour a week type of engagement.

Some are part time for folks that
have those full time type of jobs.

And really, that's my, that's my job.

Now is I was a former developer.

Now, really, I spend my days
essentially selling and marketing,

um, independent consultants to my
clients and finding work for them.

Kevin Griffin: Well, you had told me
before we hit record that you used to be

a full time employee and you eventually
made the jump to go independent yourself.

Um, let's.

Talk about that a bit.

What was the catalyst to make
you want to jump from full time,

quote, safe employment to the
world of independent consulting?

Scott Eastin: so, but the headline
here is it was desperation is

probably the best way to put it.

So, um, long story short, I
was working, uh, for a large

beverage company here in Atlanta.

I'd actually been a consultant
for them for several years and,

um, I went full time with that,
uh, with that company, because of

some family situation and whatnot.

So long story short, you know,
had been a great client of mine.

I thought I knew the place and, uh,
there was a change in leadership and,

uh, the culture completely changed.

It went from a great place to work to.

You know, at the end of the day,
Kevin, I was extraordinarily unhappy.

Um, just some crazy requirements about
what was being asked of the teams,

was often working till three in the
morning, several days and weeks in a row.

And, uh, it was just a
very unhappy existence.

And I knew that something had
to change and couple that with.

You know, going back in the way back
machine, this was in the depths of the

Great Recession and, um, long story short,
I ended up answering an ad for a, uh,

contract position for a unique company.

that I had, and I essentially rolled
the dice, took a year long contract

where I had to travel from Atlanta
to Virginia for a year, had my own

apartment, two kids under five, a wife,
and that's literally how I got started.

It wasn't any type of, um, forethought.

It was really more just, I
was extraordinarily unhappy.

I knew that something had to change.

I wanted to work for myself.

I've met lots of independent
consultants, and it was a lifestyle

that I was interested in getting to.

And so I'd like to be able to tell you
that there was a lot of forethought and

market analysis, but it was just flat out.

I was very unhappy and I
knew something had to change.

Kevin Griffin: And I've seen
that numerous times before,

where just a change in a person.

It doesn't have to be a
whole leadership team.

It can be just a change in a person
changes the entire dynamic of How a

company works, how a, he said a team's
work and I've been there before.

I've been that unhappy person where
this used to be good and it's not good

anymore and I wish it was good and I think
you're a real testament of what we try

to teach people with multithreaded income
is it's not, it's not get rich quick.

It's not just bringing
tons of extra money.

It's insurance.

It's.

Insurance for these types of scenarios
where you just are not happy doing what

you're doing, or you get laid off, or
something happens to the day job and

we want to feel safe with the day job,
but reality is you're, you're never

Scott Eastin: Well, and that's
and You're exactly right.

And, you know, I think that's the
whole thing that 2023 hopefully taught

a lot of people in tech is that, you
know, you may have a great skill set.

You may be a hard worker.

You may be a great person.

But at the end of the day, there
are all sorts of things that happen

in these large organizations where,
you know, You'll get let go and

it could be no fault of your own.

It could be a financial issue.

It could be a market change.

It could be a skill set, but you're
you're always, um, it's like playing pro

football or being a professional athlete
is that you can be traded at any time.

You can be cut at any time.

And hopefully that lesson has
been imparted to everyone in 2023.

Kevin Griffin: I'd like to say
the only job I've never been

fired or quit from was working for

Scott Eastin: Exactly, exactly,

Kevin Griffin: hard as I've tried,
I haven't gotten my boss to fire me

Scott Eastin: exactly, exactly.

Kevin Griffin: So Scott, I wanted
to kind of role play with you a

bit and say, I'm in the position
of a person with a full time job.

I'm comfortable with where I am.

I'm comfortable with the money I'm making,
but I want to start building up a little

bit of, uh, a portfolio of, of side work.

And.

I don't want to go through the
effort of trying to find my own

gigs, my own clients, because
that's a lot of sending cold emails.

It's a lot of just networking
that I may or may not want to do.

Um, but I find someone like you who
is actively looking to put people

in different places that might not
need full time help, but could use

part time health that I can offer.

Um, to you, Scott, what's the, what's
the first thing you're going to ask me

Scott Eastin: Well, really, the first
thing that I'm going to do is I'm going

to look at your LinkedIn profile, and
I'm going to just try to get a sense

of, you know, how put together you are.

Are you producing content?

Do you have a YouTube channel?

Are you putting yourself out there?

And really what I find, and this is a
perfect case, is that I actually have

an interview with a lady later today,
um, for some potential workforce, and

I'll use her as a potential interview.

Or a use case here is that, uh, looked at
her skill set, found it through LinkedIn,

looked at her profile, very put together.

Um, you know, she, she
put some effort in there.

She has been producing
some content clearly.

Is into the technical side and
is putting herself out there as a

professional has a decent picture.

Nice banner on her LinkedIn profile
has her contact information in there.

So it makes it easy for people like
myself to vet her and determine, you know,

does she seem like she's trustworthy?

Because ultimately, at the end of
the day, Kevin, we do technology,

but what I sell is trust because.

The real key to be successful, either
as a part time independent consultant

or a full time independent consultant
is that you have to be trustworthy.

And people like myself and the end clients
have to know that they can count on you.

So having a great LinkedIn
profile, or even a decent

LinkedIn profile with a, you know.

Semi looking professional picture
is a great place to start.

So those would be the first things
that I would look for is getting

your LinkedIn profile together
and then having some content that

you're putting out there as well.

And you don't have to go crazy on
the content, but at least doing

something would be, um, would be a
good recommendation to get started.

Kevin Griffin: now?

Does having a limited or non
existent LinkedIn presence, does

that completely eliminate me from
even getting past your front door or

is there anything else I could do?

Scott Eastin: Really, the other
way that people are introduced

to me is through referrals.

So, you know, again, going back to
my chain of trust is that that's the

other thing that I look for because in
my position, it's landing clients and

keeping clients is very, very competitive.

And if there's any type
of mess up on projects.

It comes to me.

I'm the ultimate backstop.

So my whole business
philosophy, I'm lazy, right?

I don't want to get those phone calls.

If my phone isn't ringing, I
assume that everything is great.

And so again, I want to look
for people who are trustworthy.

So if you don't have a great LinkedIn
profile, or you don't have a LinkedIn

profile, then it would have to
be some type of direct referral.

To me from somebody that I trust, but
if you're someone I hate to say off the

street, but you have no LinkedIn profile
and you're reaching out to me and you

don't know anyone on my network, then
it's going to make it really hard for

me to really take a chance is what.

You know, I ultimately
have to do with new people.

So that's why I'm always looking for
that social proof, that validation,

either through LinkedIn or some type of
referral from someone who's, um, worked

with that independent consultant before,

Kevin Griffin: That makes sense.

It's not like we're trying to fill
cashier positions at the Walmart.

It's very skilled tasks that you need.

And if I'm coming to you and I
don't have anything other than.

A resume that I made up that
says I can do X, Y, and Z.

There's no way for me to prove to you that
I can do the job that you need me to do.

Scott Eastin: exactly,

Kevin Griffin: And you're not
the first one to say a good

LinkedIn presence is critical.

And the fallback to that,
knowing someone who can vouch

for you, like having a network,

Scott Eastin: exactly.

Yeah.

Kevin Griffin: episode 25 out
of our entire stack of episodes.

And I've heard that same
line from numerous people.

So anyone who's been listening
for more than two episodes,

get your LinkedIn in order, but

Scott Eastin: Exactly, and, you know, and
quite frankly, you know, I'll take you

through the search that I was doing the
other day where I found this particular

lady that I'll be talking to later today.

You know, I had some keyword
searches in LinkedIn.

Um, you know, it'll bring up a list of
people that have that potential skill set.

And I'm just, I'm looking, I'm literally
looking at the list of profiles that

come up that there is a picture,
you know, at a very minimum, have a

picture of yourself that looks like
it's again, relatively professional,

you know, maybe no hats, you know,
look like you're going into the office.

You know, just, just some basics like
that, but you know, I see a lot of people

that don't have pictures, really haven't
made any effort on their LinkedIn profile,

and so I think the key takeaway here,
and I'm not telling people you have to

spend 20 hours a week on LinkedIn or,
you know, hire a graphic artist on your

LinkedIn profile, but, you know, get
the iPhone, get someone to take a nice

picture of you, You can find all sorts of
free backgrounds for, you know, filling

out your banner and things like that,
but put forward some effort, um, in your

LinkedIn profile, because quite frankly,
that's the way that people like myself

and corporate recruiters, um, or other
people out there are going to find you.

They're in the industry.

LinkedIn is literally
people's first stops now.

Kevin Griffin: let's assume I get.

Into your inbox and we're sitting
down to have a conversation because

I'm trying to do this part time.

What type of commitment in general should
I expect or would you expect from me

in terms of hours within a given week?

Scott Eastin: Um, so I'll take you through
some of the, or at least the way that we

work with some people who are part time.

We've got a few people like that.

And here's really what I look
for is that, um, number 1 is

going to be responsiveness.

To my inquiries, um, I'm not asking people
to respond in, like, 2 minutes, but it's

typically, you know, I may send you a text
or drop you a phone call or a note and the

people that I really find do great in this
industry, even on a full time or part time

basis, or those who are responding to.

My messages or other recruiters messages.

So, you know, I may perfect
example is that there's a guy

that does part time work for us.

Um, I literally just called
him up the other day.

He took my call.

I said, Hey, here's what we
have potentially coming up.

Is this something where you
think that you could help us out?

And he's like, yeah, no problem.

Um, other times he may be in
meetings like we all are and.

Yeah.

You know, he'll get back to me in a couple
of hours, not a couple of days, which

I've seen, you know, with other people,
if you're not calling back in a couple

of days or within a few hours, then, you
know, I assume it's not important to you.

And then I go on to the next person
in my Rolodex, because the way that

I run my business is that I don't
have just 1 person that can do say.

A SharePoint migration.

I don't have 1 person that
could do an M365 migration.

I have like 5 or 6 trusted people,
at least in each technical silo.

And the way that these deals happen is
that they're normally time sensitive

where someone says, hey, do you have
someone that can help me do X, Y and Z?

I want to try to get a call
with that person with my client

in the next couple of days.

And so the way that I run the business is.

We want to be first to the
first to the goal line.

And so that's why getting responses
quickly is absolutely critical.

And the people that are most successful
in this business are the ones that

are saying within a couple of hours.

Yeah, I can help out or no, I can't.

We just want a response.

Kevin Griffin: don't want to sit around
thinking that you're you're ghosting them.

And I've I've done this numerous times
to various things that come across my

desk where someone says, Hey, we're
looking for someone to do X, Y and Z.

And I am perfectly capable
of doing X, Y and Z.

I would be happy to do X, Y and Z.

But sometimes I just can't
make it fit on my calendar.

So I'll just quickly respond.

Thanks for thinking of me.

I'm not available to you.

To do this, but please keep
me in mind for future things

and

Scott Eastin: Right,

Kevin Griffin: what happens.

Yeah.

And what happens is a couple of weeks,
maybe a couple of months later, I'll

get an email from that same person
going, Hey, we have a new thing.

X, Y, and Z

Scott Eastin: Right,

Kevin Griffin: turns out I
have room on my calendar.

Let's chat.

And what you don't want to
do is just ignore that email.

And.

Then that next time around to that
next opportunity, you're never going

to get it because that person is going
to say, Oh, Kevin didn't respond to me.

So I'm not, not going to
give Kevin that time of day.

Scott Eastin: exactly.

Kevin Griffin: sometimes there are
cases where you just miss an email

and, but still respond to that email,
I think, and just say, I am so sorry.

I missed this email.

We all know inboxes can get cluttered
and it's easy to miss an email, but.

Don't

Scott Eastin: yeah, and it's

Kevin Griffin: not

Scott Eastin: exactly, and it's the
same thing with like text, or voicemail.

Same type of thing is that, you
know, I've had people ask, well,

how do I keep on top of it?

Or how do I respond quickly?

And it's, it's super simple.

It's Hey, Siri, send so and so a text
saying, Hey, I'm not available right

now, but thanks for thinking of me.

It's not, it's not difficult.

And it's a pet.

Quite frankly, it's a pet peeve of
mine, because I'll have people come

back to me in a few months and say,
Hey, do you have anything for me?

I'm like, I thought you were kidnapped.

I never heard from you.

You know, so.

Kevin Griffin: Well, Scott, what
other type of skills and attributes do

you look for in successful, uh, part

Scott Eastin: Well, so then the other,
the other thing, um, that's really big is

self management and, and just making sure
that you're able to manage your schedule.

So, um, going back to the case study
of, um, the gentleman that we're

working with right now, he's going
to be doing some exchange work for

us and, uh, you know, the big thing
then is he's got a full time job.

He's doing some work on the side.

And basically, now I'm depending upon
him to make sure that he's managing

his full time schedule and then able
to appropriately schedule meetings with

the end client to meet with them during
the business day to go ahead, gather

requirements and get things lined up.

Um, 1 thing that I run into
every now and then with, uh, new.

Part time independent consultants
or people that are looking to

do work on the side is that I'll
often get asked the question, Hey,

can I do this work after hours?

And I'll say 99 percent of the time
it's a no, um, you know, they'll say, I

can't take meetings during the day, but
I want to do part time work after hours.

And at least in my business, I haven't
found that that's even remotely viable

specifically because with a lot of
the Azure and Microsoft consulting,

you know, you have to meet with teams.

You have to meet with
stakeholders during the day.

Give status reports, talk about
requirements, all those type of things.

And so, you know, the other thing that
if people are looking to do this on the

side is, you've got to make sure that
you're able to manage your day where

you have at least some bandwidth to
take meetings and at least be visible.

So you can be in front of the clients,
you may be doing the work after hours,

but you've got to have at least some
time during the day to, uh, to be

able to handle meetings and whatnot.

Yeah.

Kevin Griffin: on the client and
the type of work you're doing.

Cause I've taken, I don't know how
many contracts in the past where.

We've done all of our communication
over email, so it doesn't matter

what time I'm working on the project.

Um, and the worst case is
we have to do a meeting.

That was all right.

This just isn't being
communicated right over email.

Let's jump on a call.

Let's knock this out.

And those usually happen during the day.

But yeah, you always try to
find that unicorn of people

that don't like to do meetings.

They just like to do email.

That's, that's my unicorn
right there because

Scott Eastin: that's, Right.

Kevin Griffin: we had scheduled, I've been
thinking about this for two days straight.

Like, all right, I can't miss this call
with Scott because it's on my calendar.

I just hate meetings with every.

Every ounce of my being, um,

Scott Eastin: Yeah.

Exactly.

But, Um, Yeah.

And then, you know, really the final,
the final skill set here is just

follow through with the clients.

Because at the end of the day, you.

You know, from my perspective, and
I, I'm sure that anyone who's a

professional, you want to leave that
project or that individual with a

good feeling about how you've helped
them and the work that's been done.

So, you know, the ultimate follow through
and making sure that you close the project

up correctly, making sure that there are
no loose ends, you know, that customer

service focuses is something else.

That's really big also.

So, you know, really.

If you're a full time independent
consultant or a part time independent

consultant, you, you really almost
have, you, you definitely have to

have a business mindset that you're
solving a client's problem and not

just putting cash into your pocket.

And I think people that have that mindset
of, I am ultimately helping the end client

and focusing on their problem are going to
be the most successful in this business.

Kevin Griffin: I always tried to
distinguish for people, the difference

between a consultant and just a
freelancer where a consultant,

like you're describing, that's
a business minded person who can

go in and help a business solve.

A business problem.

And then you have freelancer who
is more, this might sound, uh,

derogatory, but it's a butt in a seat.

It's a person who is just doing
the work that they're told to do.

And that's, uh, two different
sets of skills entirely.

And.

I'm more in the line of what you're
describing the independent consultant.

I'm going to come in and I'm going
to help you with your problem in

the best way possible and that
because you don't know the solution.

I don't know the solution.

Let's figure out the solution.

Let's implement the solution.

Scott, we wanted to talk a little bit
about the market as of January 2024,

because I know these things fluctuate.

So if I'm coming to you and as
either a consultant or as a client,

what's the market currently look like
for folks you're placing and what do you

think the future demand is going to be?

Scott Eastin: So I'll step back
and just say 2023 in consulting

in general was very tough and in
general in tech and is tough as well.

So we're all aware, um, about the layoffs
that happened at Microsoft at Amazon

and a lot of the big technical players
and really what that did last year is

that that really put it put a big dent
in the consulting market in general.

So, like, a lot of the clients Um,
this Microsoft business partners and

system integrators that we work with.

A lot of them had significant
problems last year.

Some did really well, but I would say
in general, most of them were really.

Steady state where they were doing
their best not to lay people off

and try to keep the folks that
they had, um, as busy as possible.

There were still a lot of layoffs
in the Microsoft business partner

community, and that's bled over into
the independent consulting arena.

And so what we saw.

Last year is that there was
probably a 20 to 30% drop in

demand for independent consultants.

We saw that ramp up coming into
Q3 and into Q4 was fairly decent.

Um, and so in 2024, we're
hoping for a rebound.

We've had a lot of conversations
with our end clients and people are

really, what's happening now is that.

The various end clients are being a little
bit more conservative and hiring FTEs.

And so now they're asking, well, we
can probably do more of a virtual

bench with trusted resources.

And so we'll probably start to
see more companies really leverage

independent consultants either on a.

Full or part-time basis going into
2024 to hedge their betts about hiring

FTEs and taking on more overhead.

So that's the forecast right now.

Uh, but you know, again, things can change
in February, but you know, right now we've

seen a, a fairly decent start to 2024.

Kevin Griffin: Well, sounds good.

So that gives everyone
a little bit of hope.

Right?

Everything that goes down, it's
got to come back up eventually.

So keep your linked in updated.

And Scott, what's the best
way to connect with you?

Um, after they've
listened to this episode?

Scott Eastin: I'll go back to LinkedIn.

You can certainly find me on LinkedIn.

Uh, Scott Easton on LinkedIn.

Uh, my firm is Easton IT security
and certainly for anyone who's an

independent Azure, uh, consultant or
wants to do this full or part time.

I would certainly love
to hear from you again.

It's a great market to be in,
even though I mentioned that it's

been a little challenging lately.

But Kevin, back to your point is that I
think it's always good to have a plan B.

Uh, you may be very happy where you are,
uh, in your job and in your industry.

But again, what we saw in 2023 is
that things can change on a dime.

And if you, I think every professional
out there should have a plan B because you

just have no idea what's going to happen.

And again, it's a great way to make
a little bit of money on the side.

Some in some cases, a lot of
money on the side, uh, and have

a nice plan B for your career.

, Kevin Griffin: Scott, thank you so
much for hanging out with us today.

Um, we'll have to have
you back in a year or so.

We'll just see how the market's
going, um, and do some follow

Scott Eastin: would be glad to
be back to give my forecast here.

Kevin Griffin: All right.

Well, thank you everyone for listening
to the multi threaded income podcast.

We'll see you again next week.

Take care.

You've been listening to the
multi threaded income podcast.

I really hope that this podcast
has been useful for you.

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And don't forget the
conversation doesn't stop here.

Join us on our discord at mti.

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I've been your host Kevin Griffin
and we'll see you next week.

Cha ching!