Multithreaded Income Podcast

It's time for the multi
threaded income podcast.

We're like insurance for a
turbulent tech landscape.

I'm your host, Kevin Griffin.

Join me as I chat with people all around
the industry who are using their skills

to build multiple threads of income.

Let us support you in your career
by joining our discord at mti.

to slash discord.

Now let's get started.

Kevin Griffin: Welcome
back to the show, everyone.

I'm joined by my very special
guest today, Kaya Amani.

How are you today, Kaya?

Kiah Imani: I am doing great, Kevin.

Thank you for having me on.

I'm really happy to be
here to share my story.

Kevin Griffin: you are one of the
long line of folks I've had on

the podcast where our lives have
crossed paths at that conference.

And.

I didn't, I didn't anticipate this
happening and I didn't even think

about it until we were chatting on
Twitter and I was making my notes

and like, Kaya looks very familiar.

Where did I know Kaya from?

And we met at that conference when
you were working the Auth0 booth and,

Kiah Imani: Yes.

Kevin Griffin: How was
that conference for you?

Was it enjoyable?

It was a smaller crowd, but I had

Kiah Imani: I really am.

Kevin Griffin: there.

Kiah Imani: Yeah, I
really enjoyed it as well.

It was my very first time
going to that conference.

Um, uh, I've heard very many like
positive things about that conf.

So I was really excited to
go and it did not disappoint.

Um, Clark and his crew
are just like top notch.

So I had a really good time.

The venue was amazing.

Did you get a chance to go into
the, um, water park area at all?

Kevin Griffin: I did not.

It's my first time out of the
Kalahari not going to the water park.

I

Kiah Imani: It was great.

It was great.

They had, they had a, uh, adult only area.

Oh my gosh.

It was awesome.

So that's why I did that work.

Kevin Griffin: uh, next year, I'll
plan on bringing the swim trunks

and going to the water park.

I totally forgot about it.

I got to the last day there and realized
I hadn't gone down to the water park yet.

Kiah Imani: did you forget?

That's like the whole draw.

Kevin Griffin: Well, that's
the thing with that conference.

I was, Go, go, go.

Just conference, conference,
conference stuff.

And then I think the one free
evening I had, I ended up just going

back to my room and going to sleep

I think this leads us into our
first conversation point is you're

currently working with Auth0, correct?

Kiah Imani: I am, I've been with
Aus0 for Just under a year now,

Kevin Griffin: And what
do you do at Auth0?

Kiah Imani: I am a
developer advocate at Auth0.

So I like my, my job is to work conference
booths and speak at conferences and

create content for developers, um,
to help them use Auth0 and help them,

um, to help decrease, this is my skill
that I like to say, to help decrease

the friction and the time to get from.

discovery to like the
first light bulb moment.

Kevin Griffin: I got it.

What did you do before Auth0?

Kiah Imani: Um, before Auth0, this
is actually my second DevRel job.

Um, and DevRel is developer relations
for anyone listening that, uh,

is not familiar with the term.

Um, so prior to Auth0, I worked for
a company called Progress, uh, and

supported a product called Chef.

Um, I'm sure you're familiar.

Yep.

A DevOps product.

And I was there for about two years.

And then prior to that, I was full
time at my startup, C TRAX, which

is what we're going to get, what
we're going to dig into later.

Kevin Griffin: gotcha.

So I am very familiar with the Progress
line of products and primarily Telric.

I knew Telric before Progress bought them.

And then Progress has done, Progress
does a really good job in general Uh,

just finding good companies out there
in the developer, the developer I.

T.

Space and then just putting
money into those products.

So I think overall they've done
a really great job and chef is

definitely one of those products.

I don't use it very much.

I've used it once or twice, but definitely
a good suite of products out there.

Kiah Imani: Yeah.

Great products, great communities.

Um, that, that's one of the,
the, the secret sauce, I think.

Um, especially if chef,
like there are quite a few.

You know, DevOps seed type CIC, you
know, flavor of products out there.

But, uh, chef has a really great
community and that's what I really think.

Um, and probably did a great
job of keeping that, you know.

focus going.

So, um, kudos to them for that.

Kevin Griffin: Well, let's
talk about your startup.

So you already threw the name out.

C tracks.

Now I'm saving this for this conversation.

But what is C tracks?

Kiah Imani: That's a great question.

Kevin will see tracks.

It was actually, it started off as
Canada tracks and that probably like

leaves a hint, but it's a B to B sass.

Um, Software focused on back
office for cannabis dispensaries.

Kevin Griffin: OK,

Kiah Imani: Look at the face.

Um,

Kevin Griffin: where did the
idea for C tracks come from?

Kiah Imani: it came from a trip
that my husband and I took to Vegas.

Um, this was in maybe 2018.

Um, We ended up going into a dispensary
because they were legal in Vegas.

I think it was like brand spanking
new, uh, to, you know, like

the, what is it?

What is it?

Prohibition like cannabis prohibition
had just been lifted in, in Vegas.

And we were in Vegas for the
very first time and we went to a

dispensary and we, um, had a very
disjointed, um, Pun intended, I

Kevin Griffin: no, but
yeah, I was going to ask,

Kiah Imani: get a, uh, very
disjointed checkout experience.

And when we asked about it, cause
I mean, I don't know, like I'm, I'm

an entrepreneur at heart, both of my
parents were entrepreneurs, so every

time I like encounter a problem, I'm
like, Oh, this could be something cool.

So we asked about what, you know, why the.

Um, checkout experience was, you know,
had so much friction and they said it

was because there were not like they
weren't using a software that was,

um, built for cannabis dispensaries.

Like, there were none and so they
had to, like, um, like, kind of.

Bubble gum and, you know, like
sticky tape, something together to

make it work for their business.

And so that was a mental note.

And in that trip, we went to a
couple of others dispensaries.

And then we, so we went to a couple
of other dispensaries in Vegas.

And then we ended up going to L.

A.

in that same timeframe and went
to a couple of dispensaries in L.

A.

because now we're doing
market research, right?

That's what I'm going to call it.

And found that everybody was
having that same problem.

And that is where the idea was born.

Kevin Griffin: you said
the checkout experience was

disjointed, no pun intended, right?

And.

What, what exactly does that mean?

I imagine going to the dispensary, you
just point out what you want, they bag

it up and they, they give it to you.

What, what was,

Kiah Imani: Well,

Kevin Griffin: this as a person that's
never actually been in dispensary.

I've only seen it on TV.

What was disjointed about the experience?

Kiah Imani: well, that's a good question.

So that's how it should be.

That's how it is now.

I would say, um, because there's
quite a few, um, players in the

game from like that are solving
the same problem that we solved.

Um, it should be very seamless.

Like you go into a store like a grocery
store and you pay for your things, right?

But what we experienced was sure.

You point to what you want.

They'll get, they'll bring it out.

Um,

the way that they had to, uh, track
their customer's purchases was something

that a normal point of sale system
did not have the capability to do.

So they would have to, um, pull up a,
uh, something separate, maybe like a CRM

system, possibly, and then, um, you know,
get my information and then, you know,

Track how much they sold to me and then
go back in at the end of the day and then,

um, upload all of that information or not
even upload, excuse me, manually enter all

of that information into what is called
what I now know to be called a seat to

sale tracking, um, system and that they
have to do it for every customer, right?

And then not to mention the fact that,
um, From a financial perspective,

like you can't use at that time.

You could not use your debit card,
for instance, or your credit card.

You still can't use credit cards, but
you couldn't even use a debit card to

purchase because it's federally illegal.

So, like, you can't there's
like regulatory things around

moving the money, right?

And one of the things that, um,
normal point of sale systems do is

they come with like stripe or like a
square or something like that, that,

they're . Built in merchant services.

So when we built C tracks,
one of the things that we did.

Was we made it a payment processor or
merchant service processor agnostic.

So, um, one of the things that we saw
there was at the time, you would have

a merchant services provider that would
accept payments from dispensaries.

And then maybe like a couple of
weeks later, the regulations would

change and then they wouldn't.

And then you would have to find another
merchant service processor, you know?

And.

So that will be a game that could go
on and on and on for, you know, months.

And then that could put somebody out of
business if they had to continue to, you

know, change out their point of sale and
inventory management every single time

they wanted to, they needed to change
out their merchant services provider.

And so that was a huge part of the
problem that we solved, um, with C Tracks.

And like I said, there are quite a few
other players in the game right now.

So I'm sure the, I know for a fact
that the experience is a lot more

seamless now, thanks to a lot of the
innovative folks in the industry.

But it was a huge headache for
dispensary owners back in the day.

Kevin Griffin: I recall vaguely back
when states were starting to legalize

marijuana as a independence consultant.

I must have gotten half a dozen emails
from people looking for developers

specifically to help build business
systems around marijuana dispensary

and because that industry didn't exist.

And then all of a sudden
it was allowed to exist.

And let me say it this way, it existed,

Kiah Imani: Yes, for sure.

Kevin Griffin: legal.

And we had to, well, people, not
me, you had to build systems around

these new rules and regulations.

And I don't think people out there really
realize if they didn't go deep into it.

You're, you're touching on it.

This is different state to state,
and it could almost be different.

County or city to county or city.

And we're talking primarily United
States, but that's a ton of headache.

And that was one of the primary reasons
I didn't get involved in it was, oh,

that just seems like a lot of effort.

And I don't know if I want to do it.

Uh, so kudos to you all for,
for going down that route.

Kiah Imani: Thank you.

Yes, it was not easy and it still isn't.

Um, yes, you're right.

State to state, it's different.

County to county, it could be different.

Um, and you have multi state, uh,
processors that, you know, have

dispensaries in, in different
states and they have, they have to

manage all of that nuance, right?

And then on top of that, like,
these regulations are ever evolving.

So it's, it's, it's, it's a
huge, um, undertaking to, to be a

software provider in that industry.

And it's not for the faint of heart
because there's also like not a

lot of people that are putting a
lot of money into it currently.

Kevin Griffin: They come up with the.

Initial concept for C Tracks.

What's it like, where do you go next?

Do you build a MVP, a proof of concept?

How do you get that first customer?

Kiah Imani: We had this idea and this
was booming on the West coast, right?

But we lived in North Carolina.

Okay.

So it was really like harebrained
scheme type thing, right?

Um, we saw a problem that
needed to be solved, right?

But did we really have access
to be able to solve it?

And the answer to that was
not at the moment, right?

But what we did end up having, um, having
was that same year hemp became a thing.

So since, you know, um, the west
coast and some, you know, select

states over on the east coast had,
you know, marijuana, we had CBD.

Same problems, right?

Except for, um, CBD was federally legal.

Still, we encounter the similar issues
with merchant service processing.

And so that we figured that
that was like, this was it.

This is our, this is our moment.

Okay, cool.

Let's go off to the races.

My husband was good friends with,
um, A person who started the first

dispensary, this first CBD dispensary
in Uh, Charlotte, North Carolina,

and they ran it just like they
ran on one, uh, on the West Coast.

So it was exact same experience, but
you know, it was just different product,

similar product, but just different.

Um, so that was our first customer.

We had our MVP going.

It was, it was terrible.

And you know, it's funny because I
want my first investor said, if you

release a product and you're not
embarrassed by it, you released too late.

So we were embarrassed.

We actually ended up having to, like, it
was, it was great at first, but then we

realized how many holes we had to plug.

And that was what, April of 2018.

That we got our first customer.

It was actually April 1st and it
was the craziest April fool's day

ever because we went in there,
we did their entire inventory.

They didn't, they have been open for
maybe, they probably have been open for,

let's say about four or so months, but
they never really managed their inventory.

They just like, they had it, they sold it.

They didn't, they, they couldn't
sell it, you know, but they

didn't really have projections.

They didn't really know, okay.

I'm going to have to buy, um, you
know, pre rolls in a week in order

to kind of keep with my current flow.

So we ended up going in there and doing
their entire inventory from scratch.

This was like thousands
of products, right?

And so, well, hundreds of
products, but then also tens

of variants of those products.

And those are all individual SKUs.

So we ended up going in and doing that
manually in, um, for our first onboarding.

And then we ran into, like, the first
problem that we ran into was, uh, the

fact that we were using a web app, right?

And We had to, our customers needed
to use peripherals, like they needed a

Bluetooth printer and they needed, um, to
be able to, it was really the Bluetooth

printer, the Bluetooth printer was the
biggest thing, but I think also like the

barcode scanner was something, another
thing that they needed to use, but it

didn't really work well with a web app.

Um, so we immediately realized that we
needed to do something native and then

we're like, okay, well, can we use iPads?

And I was like, I mean, you could,
but we don't have an iOS app.

So, so that was the next step we, we, and
no, but everybody wanted to use iPads.

Um, everybody in the store at that time,
we still only had that one customer.

Um, we probably only had that one
customer for about a couple of

months while we try to figure it out.

Cause we were really like,
Oh, it was really bad.

Okay.

So it eventually.

Um, we've launched our second
version of our product, right?

Um, our, like, we went GA.

If that, you know, um, so, we had
our iOS app, we had our, um, our

admin, which was still a web app,
and we were off to the races.

We started acquiring customers.

So, wait, this was not April
2018, this was April 2019.

So, wait, this was not April
2019, this was April 2019.

By September, 2019, we had launched
our, uh, second version and we

all know what happened in 2020.

Um, so we had, by the time COVID
hit, we maybe had like 11 customers.

So, you know, we, we were like,
okay, we're doing great up until

COVID and everybody had to close.

Well, everyone, except for maybe
a handful of our customers closed

because, um, cannabis dispensaries
were, um, they were considered,

uh, what is it a vital, is it like

Kevin Griffin: Oh, essential.

Kiah Imani: essential, essential,
yes, they were an essential business.

So they were able to stay open.

If you had enough money to stay open.

You know, if you had the money
to keep your business running,

you could keep it running.

You didn't have to close down.

So, um, we had, we lost half of our
customers and half of our revenue, but we

still had these other, uh, customers that
were still relying on us to keep going.

Okay.

But now we had other requirements
because now we needed to

do, um, curbside pickup and.

You know, we needed to do, um, deliveries.

Some folks were doing
deliveries and things like that.

So we had to pivot like our roadmap
and, and, you know, uh, accommodate

those needs because we needed to be able
to keep the people that we had going.

Right.

That was essential.

Um, and

that was the time.

Okay.

At that point, we were both, I'll we'll
end up talking about how that ended up

happening, but we were both full time.

Um, it was COVID and we were just
trying to make this thing work.

We're putting one foot in front of
the other making this thing work.

And eventually we would start getting, you
know, people will start opening up again

and we would start getting new customers.

And then we started, uh, targeting
franchises as, as things started

opening up more and people started
the, the, the life started coming

back into the industry, if you will.

Um,

Kevin Griffin: lit up,
is what you're saying.

Kiah Imani: did.

We did.

We lit up and we rose to the
occasion and it was just, it was

a, it was a uphill battle though,
from the, from the beginning.

Um, I do think, you know, COVID really
did, you know, Stick a monkey wrench

in us like did with everybody else.

You know, we were no exception to that
rule, but I definitely do think it was

a testament to grit and determination
that we were able to survive that time.

Kevin Griffin: What was your pricing
model like for, for a dispensary?

Kiah Imani: Um, so we would do, uh,
it was subscription basically had

a 99 subscription for each terminal
for each like point of sale system.

And normally like smaller
stores would have one.

Um, this was per month.

So if you had

two or more, we would, you know, we would
have like, maybe I think it was 149 at

the time for, for two, um, terminals.

And then we would, um, increase our
pricing as, as it went from there.

And then we had, like, once we entered
into franchise, we had a different pricing

model for that because, um, you know,
that's stuff in a different territory

because you would need to be able to.

Um, look at all of the stores
that you have in your franchise.

So that was a different, a
different, uh, product if you will.

Um, so we had like more enterprise
level, um, pricing model for that.

Kevin Griffin: You, he said that you and
your husband went full-time on c tracks.

It doesn't seem like that
was on purpose though.

Kiah Imani: It wasn't on purpose.

Um, so here's what happened.

We were trying, we thought we were going
to be raising VC because We saw like

folks that were excited to get into the
market, um, from, you know, a investment,

an investment perspective, we thought
we were going to, well, we thought we

were going to do an accelerator first
and then raise VC, et cetera, et cetera.

That was, that was what we
wanted our trajectory to be.

Um, and so my husband at the
time was working for, um, he

was in car sales, No, excuse me.

He was in software sales for
car dealerships, but, and it was

like a very conservative company.

And so I don't know who advised us.

One of our business advisors, like,
you know, there's a whole industry

in like telling startups, the things
that they need to do and get it, you

know, get in, start getting startups
to pay them for terrible advice.

All right.

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

Kiah Imani: Like people make
a lot of money doing that.

But somebody's, uh, one of our advisors
said, um, that we, in order to, to

attract, you know, investment, we need
to be serious about it and we need to

put it on LinkedIn, et cetera, et cetera.

Now, the company that I work for,
I was doing consulting at the time.

Um, app dev consulting and my, our first
investor was, um, the CEO of that company.

So he was cool with it.

Um, but my husband's company, I told
him I was going to do it, you know,

before I did it, but my husband's
company was very conservative company.

So we found out.

And as soon as he put it, um,
that he was on doing cannabis.

They, they called in a meeting with a
couple, a few other people that were

not on the meeting invite and told him
that they no longer needed his services.

Kevin Griffin: Oh, no.

Okay.

Kiah Imani: Yes.

So that was, um, that
was how we both ended up.

Well, that was how he ended up full time.

And then, so the company that I
was working for, um, there was like

some restructuring that happened.

And I just honestly.

I really believed in what we were
doing and I really wasn't happy with

like the, the restructuring of things.

And so I just took a leap of faith and
I was like, all right, well, the thing

was, my husband was full time on it,
but he, like his job was to interact

with customers, I was building a thing.

Right.

So like, if anyone needed to be full time,
like if we had done this strategically.

He wouldn't have put anything
on his LinkedIn and I would

have gone full time on it.

Right.

He would have kept his job.

Uh, but we did not, we were just, we
were just living on a prayer, you know?

And, um, so I wasn't happy with, like I
said, the way things were going at work.

And I was like, you know what?

I am going to go full time on this.

I took a leap of faith.

We had, um, we have made it
to the last round of, um,

the last round of consideration
for, uh, a, an accelerator and I

was like, okay, well, we're going
to get in this accelerator and when

we get this accelerator, we're going
to need to go to Colorado anyway.

So, I mean, why not?

And we ended up not getting into the,
uh, to the accelerator, like for whatever

reason, they gave us some, you know, BS.

That's what they do.

They're like, Oh,

Kevin Griffin: I'm in that club too.

I had a startup.

We got to the last round of Techstars
Accelerator and Uh, that's when we were

politely told, thanks, but no, thanks.

And, uh, they, they actually
took a, another group that was

very similar to our product.

And, um, that, that product, uh, crashed.

So they, I mean, they lost that bet.

They could have went with us.

We were sure winner.

I

Kiah Imani: What?

What a slap in the face, man.

Look, I have a similar story because
we had another competitor, kind of.

It was a friendly competition,
you know, we could compete and

also integrate, um, these guys.

Pedigree.

I think it was a pedigree thing, but
these guys, um, they got 500, 000 off of

a idea on a napkin and they're gone now.

They raised,

Kevin Griffin: around here.

You're telling me

Kiah Imani: they raised a half a mil off
of an idea on a napkin, which is what

we thought was, you know, you watch the.

YouTube videos and that's
what they tell you to do.

There's this one guy, Dan Martell.

I'll never, I'll never
forgive Dan Martell.

Kevin Griffin: I know, Dan.

Yep.

I know of Dan.

Kiah Imani: oh my gosh, like Dan
tells you, you can do these things.

And I'm like, Oh, all right.

I'm gonna follow Dan's plan.

And.

You know, we followed Ben's plan
and it was not the same for us.

But anyway, that was a
rude awakening for me.

I realized that.

That's, it was also, Like I said earlier,
like, there's a whole, like, industry

that has been created around, like,
giving startups bad advice and taking

money from them for that bad advice.

Like, millionaires are
made in that industry.

So I'm just saying, um, and I'm not
saying that Dan Martell is one of

those people, but I am saying like,
there's a lot of nuance that needed

to be talked about in those videos.

Kevin Griffin: you have to really
invest in the personality to

get any sort of return and Dan
Martell is one of those guys.

I'm sure he has really good advice.

He doesn't give that good
advice away for free.

So all the stuff he's putting out
publicly, if you read his book,

he's not giving away the good stuff.

He gives the good stuff away to the person
that pays him 100, 000 for consulting

services or for coaching services.

And even then, It's probably
not even good advice.

It's probably here's access to my network.

And that's what you're
ultimately paying for.

I don't think you're paying for advice.

I think you're paying for the network and

Kiah Imani: that makes sense because
your network is your net worth.

Kevin Griffin: it

Kiah Imani: heard

Kevin Griffin: So where is C Tracks now?

Kiah Imani: C TRAX is still functioning.

Um, we are at almost a hundred stores now.

Like we're actually, but with
our pricing model, we are

like, C TRAX is self sustaining.

Nobody's becoming rich out of it.

You know what I mean?

Um, and everybody still has to have jobs.

I am currently not a part of the day
to day runnings of C TRAX anymore

because Um, for reasons that I don't
necessarily want to go into it was,

Kevin Griffin: That's fine.

Kiah Imani: yeah, but, um, but it's
still around and, you know, we're

still doing our thing is just.

That went totally different
than what I expected for it to,

Kevin Griffin: How's that?

Kiah Imani: um, we expected to be in
medical and adult use cannabis right now.

Um, we're not, cause there's like,
there's like a whole gatekeeping

type of situation, uh, that happens
in that industry that you don't

know about until you know about it.

Um, and also, um, well, so when
I went back full time, cause

I went back to work, right.

Um, you have to pay bills
at the end of the day.

And, um,

it was a situation where, you know,

when you, when you do, when
you go into business with

your significant other, right.

And you go into business and you have
these like real serious challenges.

It really takes a toll on everything.

It takes a toll on your household.

It takes a toll on everything.

So like that ended up happening and
in order to kind of save my household,

I took a step back and he, you know,
continued down the road of, um, of, you

know, leading the charge for C Tracks,
which I support it, you know, it was,

it was a necessary thing to do because
we kind of didn't see eye to eye on

the way things were supposed to go.

But, you know, I'm like, this
is your show run with it.

I'll be in the background
and you know, now we're here.

Kevin Griffin: And that makes sense.

And it's not, and it's compounded
because you have your, your spousal

relationship, and now you have a
business relationship on top of it.

You're not dealing with just business
partner issues in that case, it flows down

into the other things where you might be
making dinner and go, why are you upset?

I'm upset because you made a dumb
decision that's impacted my bottom

line and putting food on our table.

It's it's, you can't just leave that.

It, it follows you home, literally.

Kiah Imani: Literally.

Were you a fly on the wall at my house?

Kevin Griffin: No, but I have,
I have talked to plenty of folks

where, uh, the couple is our business
partners and there's, there's

some that work out just fine.

And then there's some
where there's, it's just.

Not seeing eye to eye.

It's like, I'm not in a business
relationship with my wife because I'm

pretty sure we would not see eye to
eye on certain business decisions.

And that's, so it's for the best that
we don't, we don't work together.

Kiah Imani: Sure.

Like, I mean, well, I would tend to
think that, well, I mean, everybody else

says too, like when you're in a business
relationship, it's like a marriage.

And it is, but like, some people
don't need to be double married.

You know what I mean?

Some people only need
to be single married.

So that's, that was us.

And, um, a couple of the learnings
that I got from that, because it was,

it was a real, like I said, it was a
steep uphill journey for C Tracks to,

you know, um, To become what it is
and to become like self sustaining.

Right.

Um, like even down to the fact that
when we were trying to raise capital,

um, we were trying to raise it from
a place where, you know, we weren't

known in the industry, the industry
was, first of all, there's medical and

adult use cannabis and then there's CBD.

And then CBD is like the step, the
step cousin, not even the steps sister.

It's a step cousin.

And so there's not really a lot
of, um, people who are super

excited about the CBD industry.

Cause I feel like it's going to
go away as soon as, um, medical

and adult use is federally legal.

So they're not putting
a lot of money into it.

Um, but.

In the medical and adult use cannabis
side, you know, the location really plays

a lot of, um, it has a huge factor in
the network of people that you're going

to be exposed to, like, in the places
that you're going to be able to go.

To the rooms that you're going to be
able to be in on a regular basis and

become like a, a face that people know.

Right.

But also, um,

like we didn't have any
kind of personal brand.

If people could look you up and
find something, they, it gives them

a little bit more, um, It gives
them a little bit more, you know,

trust and a little more faith that
you are who you say you are, right?

And that's one of the biggest things that
I did learn in this whole process was,

okay, so I didn't, I didn't go to Harvard.

I didn't, you know, um, like I'm
not, I didn't even, I guess as

a software engineer, I wasn't
even at like Google or anything.

That's a different thing.

Like if you're ex Googler, people
want to throw money at you.

But, um, I needed to make, I
needed to have a personal brand.

Like we both realized that that was
imperative for like any type of, um,

you know, capital raise moving forward.

And in addition to that, since we ended
up going full time and falling flat on

our face from a financial perspective.

We both realized that we needed
some type of, uh, passive income

that was not necessarily attached to
the business that we were running.

So that way we could like have
a little bit of breathing room.

So those are the things that
I ventured off and focused on.

I ventured off and focused on,
uh, personal brand building.

And then I got into real estate.

Kevin Griffin: How's real
estate been working out for you?

Kiah Imani: It has been a journey.

It's been, it's been good though.

It's been a different type of journey.

I'll tell you that.

It's been good.

I actually saw, I'm doing,
um, I'm doing midterm rentals.

And the way that I'm doing it, which
is very, very, it's not super popular.

Um, I'm doing rental arbitrage
because I got into it in 2020.

I got been, excuse me.

I've been in it for about a year, right?

It was 2023.

That I got into it, uh,
interest rates were terrible.

So I'm like, I'm not going to
just try this and like buy a

house and be, you know, pay all
this high interest and X, Y, Z.

Let me, let me try rental arbitrage.

Those who don't know what rental arbitrage
is, it's when you rent a property from

a landlord and you, um, then go and
sublease that property for a profit.

So that's what I've been
doing for the last year.

And it has been very profitable.

I'll say that has been profitable.

Um, in the year that I've had my
rental, I had a group stay there

for seven months and I was making 2,
500 and profit every single month.

So that, that was awesome.

They moved out and they left bed bugs.

And so I was out for like a whole month.

That was just, that was last month
from April 1st, April fool's day again.

Obviously.

So I had to go and handle that.

Kevin Griffin: this a case where
you're furnishing the house?

Kiah Imani: Yes.

Yes.

I furnish it, uh, provide, you
know, all, all of the fixings.

So, um, furniture, bedding, um, even
toilet paper and things like that,

at least to get people started.

And I, my niche that I'm
targeting is travel nurses.

But what I ended up with, um,
is what I ended up attracting

more than travel nurses.

Um, interns and construction
workers go figure.

Kevin Griffin: Okay.

Kiah Imani: Yeah,

Kevin Griffin: They don't necessarily
need a place to stay for a year.

They can't commit to a year long lease,
but they could commit to four or five

months, do the job, and then go home.

Kiah Imani: Right, exactly.

And with construction workers, there's,
you know, they have like a stipend.

Apparently I did not know this, but
like in, you know, like I said, I

got some, there's subcontractors, um,
there's a per diem for, for lodging.

So they're able to.

You know, pay above market rate for,
um, the, you know, shorter term leases.

And that's where I make my

Kevin Griffin: Oh, that's excellent.

Kiah Imani: Yeah.

Kevin Griffin: So now I need to
ask you just kind of, we're coming

to the end of our time together.

What's the end game for, for you?

Kiah Imani: Um, so the end game,
I mean, I love my job, right?

I love what I do.

Um, I've never seen myself working
for someone forever though.

So what, what my plan is, here's the plan.

The plan is to continue to build my
personal brand through content creation.

And like my, my, my full time
job really helps with that.

Like it's kind of adjacent, right.

Um, generate passive revenue.

Now my midterm rental, I
realized is not passive revenue.

Um, what I, the next step for that,
for the real estate game is going

to be multi family, uh, housing.

And I'm going to do some house
hacking and then I'm going

to kind of build from there.

Um, so those two things.

personal branding, passive revenue.

And then I do want to, once I
have those things down, Pat, I

do want to do another startup.

And, but it will not be in a nascent,
um, highly regulated industry.

It will be

Kevin Griffin: Yeah.

Pick something a little safer.

Uh,

Kiah Imani: it'll be regular degular.

Kevin Griffin: I'm calling the
segment action over inspiration.

This has been a very inspiring
story and there's a lot of really

good tidbits in the conversation.

But if someone out there was looking for
something that they could start today to

put them on a similar path as you, what
advice would you give to that person?

Kiah Imani: Um, I would
definitely say Start

working on a way to passively
generate income, because once you

have passive income, it really
gives you the flexibility to

branch off and do other things.

Um, so whether that be real
estate, whether that be, um,

what are some other, Oh, maybe like you
could do, I don't know, uh, car sharing.

I don't know if that's passive,
but things that you can do without,

like, without it being super, um,

like time heavy, you know, it doesn't
require a lot of your time so that way

you can focus on what you actually want to
do and you don't drown while you're, um,

while you're building your business up.

And I would.

Also say to those who do have
full time jobs and are working

to, you know, we're going to side
hustle and saying, you know what?

Maybe I should go and do this full time.

Um, I would definitely say when you
think it's time to go full time.

Wait and

see like your check ins and saves.

You actually should do the math.

You shouldn't go on a hunch, do the math.

And once the numbers add up,
if the dollars make sense,

then take the leap because.

You know, when you live on a prayer,
it could work, but it could also

take a lot longer to work.

It can work right away, but it can
also take a lot longer to work.

And it's a lot about, it's a lot about
luck and it's not necessarily all

about, you know, the work that you do.

So I would, I would definitely
say those two things.

Go for passive first and wait
to quit your full time job.

Right.

Kevin Griffin: not going to name
him or anything, but he, Kept

meticulous spreadsheets of his
income from his side businesses.

And he worked a full time job
and he had side businesses.

And every month he would say, all right,
side business, a made this much money.

I had this much expense.

So, so much profit business B.

So he says, all right, I'm only
making, it was a five figure number.

Per month of, of income on just his side
businesses, not including his day job.

And we would regularly as part
of this little mastermind group

that we have, we would say, why do
you still have the full time job?

And here we go.

I just, it doesn't still
doesn't feel right.

I'm not having to do a lot of work.

They're producing good
income is just extra income.

And a couple of months later, we
would ask him again, why do you

still have the full time job?

And, and we would ask him this
and eventually he got to the

point, went, you know what?

I'm done.

Um, I'm going to quit the job and just
go all in on My personal projects and he

easily, but he went easily years being
stable enough in these side projects

where he could have gone full time and
just chose not to, because sometimes

it's just nice having the flexibility
and the security of the full time job.

Kiah Imani: Oh yeah.

Kevin Griffin: just in case.

Kiah Imani: didn't realize how much I
loved getting a paycheck until I didn't

get one, like getting a paycheck and
then not getting a paycheck and then

getting one again, I was like, Oh wow.

Oh, this is, this is great.

You know, it's like, I'll
do what you need me to do.

It's cool.

As long as you keep paying me.

Kevin Griffin: Absolutely.

Kiah Imani: Because you, okay, another
thing is you're gonna, there's, there's

going to be a point depending on what
you do, there's going to be a point

where you're working for free, you
know, like whether, whether that be a

month, whether it be a year, you know,
and you don't know what your utmost is.

I was, I was in the
military and I did SEER.

And one of the things that we did in
our, um, SEER training was one of the

sayings was resist to your utmost.

Um, and you don't know what your
utmost is until you're there and

you're like, okay, I cannot work
another day without getting paid.

So yeah, you'll definitely find a lot,
you'll find out a lot about yourself

when you, when you take that leap.

So do it wisely.

Like it.

I think your friend did it the right way.

Kevin Griffin: Kai it's been a
pleasure chatting with you about

your journey and I'm looking forward
to keeping in touch with you in the

future and just see how things go.

And we'll have to see each other
again at future conferences,

wherever that might take us.

But thank you so much for
hanging out with us today.

Kiah Imani: Thank you so
much for having me, Kevin.

And yes, we will definitely keep in
touch and stay tuned for more shenanigans

because there, there will be more.

I know it.

Kevin Griffin: All right.

That's it for today on the
multi threaded income podcast.

Everyone else we'll see you next week.

Thanks and take care.

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I've been your host Kevin Griffin
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Cha ching!